The Scientific Case for the Existence of God!

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

In my last two or three posts on the OPF, I noticed that many comments made by members were about Dr. Kent Hovind 

I was wondering why these OPF members were making such a big deal out of this man when I did not even mention him in these posts. They made very few comments on the topic that I had written about but seemed more concerned with proving that Dr. Hovind was crazy and a liar.

But why would they be so concerned with proving that this man is crazy and a liar? If the man really is crazy and a liar, wouldn't people be able to see this for themselves? And why would so many very intelligent science professors agree to sit down with a crazy man and have a rational public debate with him? Are all of these science professors crazy too? Of course not, and neither is Dr. Hovind.

So why are these OPF members trying so hard to make other members believe that Dr. Hovind is crazy and a liar? Because they are afraid that some other members might listen to Dr. Hovind and see the truth. They know that he is one of the best at presenting evidence which proves the existence of God and that the Bible is true. 

But they don't want other members to see this evidence because they don't want them to believe that God exists and that the Bible is true. Why? Because they dislike the REAL God just as much as they do the false God that Bill Wilson invented. They also dislike The REAL Bible just as much as they dislike the false Bible that Bill Wilson put together. 

So I strongly recommend that you to watch these very exciting videos and think for yourself. Don't be a blind follower of a few people who dislike God so much that they do not want you to hear and see scientific facts that have helped many see The Truth - The Truth that has made millions free from their "addictions."

So listen with an open mind to what Dr. Hovind has to say. He has a great sense of humor; you will not be bored. To watch these videos, click the link below.

Jim Battle
 

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXghttp://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=simon+greenleaf+youtube&FORM=VIRE11#view=detail&mid=E5C6DC3D6E16C02635C8E5C6DC3D6E16C02635C8

Part 2 - http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jesus+evidence%2c+ancient+historical+sources+-+2+mp4&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=AC089F768121AA77313DAC089F768121AA77313D

Christianity, Paganism, and AA (A Response to NoAAUK)

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

This is a response I made to an OPF member called NoAAUK. He posted a blog about Christianity, Paganism, and AA trying to persuade OPF members to stop ganging up on me because of my Christian beliefs. I wrote...

Hi NoAAUK,Orange (the forum owner) told me that he discourages the attacking of any individual by other members just because they have different opinions. But the folks you are talking to (or about) don't care about the forum owner's wishes. They pretend to care about Orange but they do this and also continue to plead with him, from time to time, to ban me knowing how strongly he feels about free speech. He even told them that freedom of speech is his religion, the thing he has faith in.

So in a sense, they have even ganged up on him to try to pressure him into acting against one of his religious beliefs, against his own convictions. So they only care about their own beliefs and feelings. In other words, they are very inconsiderate of others except those who agree with their most valued beliefs.

They know what the primary purpose of this website is, as far as you and Orange are concerned, but they have added another primary purpose - destroying or weakening people's faith in God and the Bible. You are right about them behaving like the steppers by "all ganging up on an individual who didn't speak their council approved group talk." They are against AA doing the same thing they are doing.

You say that you don't think you have changed your beliefs, just modified them somewhat. I see it differently but the point you and I are making is that there is no excuse to attack another member because they don't agree with your religious beliefs. They don't want to "agree to disagree without being disagreeable." Why? Because that goes against what they are - intolerant religious bigots.

You are also right about the Steppism "God" using lies to recruit others into the stepper cult. I caught a "Christian" doing this once and told him it was wrong. He was trying to win so-called alcoholics and so-called addicts to Christ by telling them "Only Christ can break your habit, whatever it is." 

 

He may have been just blindly parroting what he had heard from someone else. Nevertheless, it was still wrong. Deception is not God's way of getting others to believe. So, as you can see, I'm strongly against using deception to win others to our beliefs.

But Soberman has clearly done that by pretending like he has proven that God does not exist. At least two of the members who are attacking me admitted that they knew I was right about it being impossible to prove any such thing, and why. And the other members can see that what I have pointed out about this is an indisputable fact.

However, unlike me, they will not say anything to anyone of their group who uses this kind of deception to recruit people into atheism. As long as this lie suits their agenda they have no problem with Soberman continuing to tell it. And it's not that Soberman just made a mistake, he is lying on purpose because he has been shown the reason why it is impossible to do what he pretends to be able to do.

This tells me that these Jim-Battle-attacking members do not care about honesty and fairness, yet they twist information to try to make ME appear dishonest and dangerous. Ask them about Soberman's lie and see what they say about it. I guarantee you that, if they say anything at all, they won't admit that he is lying. They either get silent about things like this or start lying to cover it up. 

I'm just telling you this to help you see what kind of people you are trying to reason with. They are NOT reasonable when it comes to tolerating basic things that millions of Christians believe and that the Bible clearly teaches.

So you can show them the difference between Steppism, Christianity, and Paganism all you want, but they are not going to change their minds about attacking people who have certain beliefs that are different from their own. They are determined to make this forum what they want it to be, not what it was created to be. 

So I will continue to expose what they are doing and defend the Christian religion. It needs to be done as long as they insist on using this forum to promote an anti-God, anti-religion, anti-Christianity agenda.

I don't agree with you that "Christianity does change over time". Since the Word of God does not change, true Christianity does not change. Everything the Lord has revealed in His Word still holds true today. 

So there is no reason for Christianity to change just because the number of people who hate it is increasing. But although you and I don't agree on some major issues, we don't attack one another. Why? Because we are not intolerant religious bigots like they are.

They want only views they approve of to be expressed on this forum although it is a free speech forum. In other words, they want injustice and yet they don't like the injustice of Drug Courts. That says a lot about the kind of people they are.

Jim Battle

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXg
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36roouexomY

Why Christians Should Not Use Secular Recovery Programs - PART TWO! (The SOS Program)

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

Yesterday, I explained what is wrong with a Christian having genuine faith in God and seeking help from a secular recovery program. I pointed out that secular programs are addressing issues that the Bible also addresses, such as addictions and how to overcome them. I also pointed out that the Bible addressed these issues before secular programs came along. 

I showed that the problem is that the teachings of secular programs are based on the religious beliefs of the religion called Secular Humanism. And the religious beliefs of Secular Humanism contradict the religious beliefs of Christianity. 

So the secular humanistic teachings of secular recovery programs contradict the religious teachings of Christianity, which come from the Bible. So a person cannot be a true Christian (a true follower of Christ) if they are following the teachings of a religion that opposes the teachings of the Bible.

I used the secular program called SMART Recovery as an example, but today I am going to show how the program called SOS (Secular Organizations for Sobriety) also contradicts the Bible.

The "General Principles of SOS" states that "All those who sincerely seek sobriety are welcome as members in any SOS Group."

But what would they teach "members" who are Bible-believing Christians? 

They go on to say that "SOS is not a spin-off of any religious or secular group." 

But, as you will see, they ARE religious because they teach the religious philosophy of Secular Humanism. The secular humanistic philosophy of SOS is "Save Our Selves." 

But the Bible teaches Christians that God will save them from temptations by providing a way of escape, (1Co 10:13 KJV). 

SOS also says "There is no hidden agenda, as SOS is concerned with achieving and maintaining sobriety (abstinence). SOS seeks only to promote sobriety amongst those who suffer from addictions."

But the truth is they are also seeking to promote the religious views of Secular Humanism amongst those who suffer from so-called addictions.

They go on to say "Although sobriety is an individual responsibility, life does not have to be faced alone. The support of other alcoholics and addicts is a vital adjunct to recovery. In SOS, members share experiences, insights, information, strength, and encouragement in friendly, honest, anonymous, and supportive group meetings."

Although it is true that "sobriety is an individual responsibility", the Bible does NOT teach that Christians need "the support of other alcoholics and addicts as a vital adjunct to recovery." 

First of all, the Bible doesn't even teach that the solution to so-called addictions is "recovery". It also does not teach Christians to get "the support of other alcoholics and addicts." The Bible teaches Christians to get the support of God and other Christians when it comes to spiritual issues, such overcoming so-called addictions, (John 8:36; Gal 6:1-2 KJV). This is also where we should get our support to "face life" in general, (Heb 10:25 KJV). And if there are no other Christians around, it is better to get the support of God alone that to have the support of so-called alcoholics and addicts, (John 16:32 KJV). 

SOS continues by saying "Sobriety is the number one priority in a recovering person's life." 

AA says the same thing. But the Bible does not teach that a Christian who is overcoming a drug and/or alcohol problem is "a recovering person". So calling a so-called addict "a recovering person" is some of AA's religious nonsense. 

According to the Bible, a Christian who overcomes a drug or alcohol problem GOD's way is being sanctified by GOD's truth, His Word; not by the humanistic teachings of programs like SOS, (John 17:17 KJV). 

Simply put, sanctification is the process of being made less sinful and more like Jesus Christ. And the way this is done is by learning the truth (i.e. what the Bible teaches) about your problems and how to overcome them, not by learning the religious beliefs of programs like SOS. 

SOS goes on to say "Honest, clear, and direct communication of feelings, thoughts, and knowledge aids in recovery and in choosing nondestructive, non-delusional, and rational approaches to living sober and rewarding lives."

But, again, so-called recovery is not the goal for Christians when it comes to so-called addictions. The goal is sanctification. (1Th 4:3-4 KJV). And learning God's truth (His Word) is the only "non-delusional, and rational approach" to living the kind of life He wants you to live, which is very rewarding, (Ge 15:1; Heb 11:6 KJV). God wants you to live a rewarding life that comes by faith in Him and His Word, not by faith in programs like SOS, (Mr 11:22; 1Ti 4:10 KJV). 

SOS ends by saying it "encourages the scientific study of addiction in all its aspects" and "does not limit its outlook to one area of knowledge or theory of addiction."

So SOS encourages the "scientific" study of ALL aspects of addiction. But when it comes to the spiritual aspect of addiction, God wants Christians to study and follow the teachings of the Bible (2Ti 2:15 KJV), not the religious teachings of secular programs that are promoted as being scientific, (1Ti 6:20 KJV).

No good scientific research studies show that any of SOS's religious teachings are more effective than the religious teachings of the Bible. So why should Christians add SOS's religious teachings to the Bible's teachings? 

As far scientific research is concerned, neither Christianity or SOS can honestly claim that one "works" better than the other. However, scientific research and history do give good reasons to believe that the teachings of the Bible are superior to all other religious teachings, including the religious teachings of SOS , (Pr 14:12 KJV). Why do I say this? Because scientific research and history show that the Bible is from A Supernatural Mind.

So Christians should be allowed to choose Christianity if unbelievers are allowed to choose SOS. And that goes for all the other secular humanistic programs. NONE OF THEM have been proven by scientific studies to be more effective than Christianity.

So since informed Bible-believing Christians do not want AA or this secular humanistic program, and there is no scientific reason to believe they need either one, they should be allowed to choose Christianity as the way to overcome their "addictions". The Bible says...

"The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." (1Co 1:18 KJV). 

"The power of God" for what? The Bible says...

"According as his divine power hath given unto us ALL things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue". (2Pe 1:3 KJV).

So although "The preaching of the cross" is "foolishness" to unbelievers, it is God's power for living a godly life - the Christian life - the kind of life God wants us to live.

So it is time for Christians to stand up and refuse to attend meetings where their own beliefs are opposed. Limiting a Christian's choice to either AA or a secular program is immoral, insulting, and unconstitutional.

Jim Battle 

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXg
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36roouexomY

Why Christians Should Not Use Secular "Recovery" Programs - PART ONE! (The SMART Recovery Program)

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

Recently, I was asked if there is anything wrong with a Christian having genuine faith in God and seeking help from a secular recovery program. Well, according to the Bible, the answer is YES, and here's why. You see, secular programs are addressing issues that the Bible also addresses, such as addictions and how to overcome them. As a matter of fact, the Bible addressed these issues first.

The problem is that the teachings of secular programs are based on the religious beliefs of the religion called Secular Humanism. And the religious beliefs of Secular Humanism

contradict the religious beliefs of Christianity. So the secular humanistic teachings of secular recovery programs contradict the religious teachings of Christianity, which come from the Bible. So a person cannot be a true Christian (a true follower of Christ) if they are following the teachings of a religion that opposes the teachings of the Bible.
 

For example, SMART Recovery "Teaches self-empowerment and self-reliance." But the Bible teaches Christ-empowerment and God-reliance, (2Ch 16:7-8; 2Co 12:9 KJV). SMART also "Encourages individuals to recover from addiction and alcohol abuse and live satisfying lives." But the Bible encourages Christians to "be filled with the Spirit" instead of getting drunk on alcohol, (Eph 5:18 KJV). And since alcohol is a drug, this applies to other drugs as well. 

The Bible also encourages Christians to live lives that are pleasing to God, not to "live satisfying lives" by doing our own thing, (1Th 4:1 KJV). "Do whatever satisfies YOU, even if the God forbids it. By the way, I have found nothing more satisfying that being guided, helped, empowered, and used by the Lord. 

SMART also "Teaches techniques for self-directed change." But the Bible teaches Christians to seek God-directed change (Jer 10:23; 2Th 3:5 KJV). And He wants to change (to conform) Christians to the image (the likeness) of Jesus Christ, (Ro 8:29 KJV).  

SMART also "Supports the scientifically informed use of psychological treatments...". But the Bible identifies psychological counseling (psychotherapy) as "the wisdom of this world" and calls it "foolishness", (1Co 3:19 KJV). The Bible teaches that people who reject God's word have no wisdom from Him, which includes wisdom for overcoming ALL sinful habits, (Jer 8:9 KJV). They may help people abstain from SOME sinful habits but not ALL sinful habits, which is one of the goals of Christianity. True Christianity brings freedom from ALL destructive habits. 

SMART also "Works on substance abuse, alcohol abuse, addiction and drug abuse as complex maladaptive behaviors...". But God (through the Bible) works on these problems as simply bad behaviors called SIN (a moral problem). And He has helped millions quit these behaviors. 

SMART also says it "Differs from Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous and other 12-step programs", which is true. But it also differs from Christianity. And informed Bible-believing Christians do not want to learn the teachings of either one. 

SMART also says that it "Evolves as scientific knowledge in addiction recovery evolves." However, no scientific research shows that any of SMART's religious teachings are more effective than the teachings of the Bible. 

So why should Christians add SMART's teachings to the Bible's teachings, or replace some or all of them? As far scientific research is concerned, neither Christianity or SMART can honestly claim that one "works" any better than the other. So Christians should be allowed to choose Christianity if unbelievers are allowed to choose SMART. And that goes for all the other secular humanistic programs. NONE OF THEM have been proven by science to be more effective than Christianity.

So since informed Bible-believing Christians do not want AA or a secular humanistic program, and there is no scientific reason to believe they need either one, they should be allowed to choose Christianity as the way to overcome their "addictions". The Bible says...

"The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." (1Co 1:18 KJV) But "the power of God" for what? The Bible says...

"According as his divine power hath given unto us ALL things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue". (2Pe 1:3 KJV)

So although "The preaching of the cross" is "foolishness" to unbelievers, it is God's power for living a godly life - the Christian life - the kind of life God wants us to live. 

So it is time for Christians to stand up and refuse to attend meetings where their own beliefs are opposed. Limiting a Christian's choice to either AA or a secular program is immoral, insulting, and unconstitutional. 

Jim Battle

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXg
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36roouexomY

The Bible and a Secular Psychologist Expose Psychotherapy!

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

This is my response to a post by an OPF member:

I have also met a few paid therapists and counselors who attended "the stepper cult." And it is also my opinion that these people should not be paid a salary. The whole psychological counseling movement is a sham, especially the so-called Christian counseling movement. 

A Non-Christian Critic of psychological counseling: Dr. Tana Dineen

A Christian Critic of psychological counseling: Dr. Martin Bobgan

Both of the critics above are psychologists with a PhD. The big difference between them and most psychologists is they are being honest and the majority is not. Part of the problem I have found on the Orange Papers Forum is that the most vocal members seem to think that the majority is always right (if it agrees with their opinions, of course). 

However, I have learned that when it comes to religious/spiritual issues like psychotherapy (psychological counseling), most people in the USA don't have a clue about what's really going on. They don't even realize that the practices of these counselors and therapists are religious; they think it's real science. But, according to both the Bible and real science, it's a pseudo-science; false science; "science falsely so called". (1Ti 6:20 KJV).

 

 On the issue of substance misuse, I agree that it's "a bad habit". The Bible teaches that a bad habit is caused by committing sin. Jesus said...

"Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34 KJV). So, according to Jesus Christ, a person who most people call an "addict" is really a "servant of sin", which means they are a slave of breaking a law of God.

Everyone breaks God's law on occasion, but many people are slaves to breaking His law. Of course, the good news is that a slave can escape or be freed. Jesus said, "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." (John 8:36 KJV)

Jim Battle 

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXg
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36roouexomY

A Wicked Agenda in the Orange Papers Community! (My Response to One Member)

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

Recently, I posted an article on my Orange Papers (OP) Forum blog that made someone very angry. They hated this post so much that they used their internet skills to make it impossible to read the comments. If they had known how, they would have also made it impossible to read the beginning of my original post. But since they could not, I was able to have people link over to this blog.
  

Realizing they might do the same thing to this post, I decided to place it on this blog as well as the one on the OPF. So if you are here, it is because this person struck again. Anyway, I'm glad you're here.

 

An OPF member called NoAAUK posted a comment at http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/4682#new. This is my response to what he said:

 

Hi NoAAUK,

 

The problem "in our ranks" is that some members have made the OPF what the owner never intended it to be... anti-God and anti-Christianity. And as much as I agree with what you are trying to do here, I must disagree about "the Anti-Stepper League fight[ing] amongst themselves." Again, the problem is some of our  members who are fighting against Christianity as an alternative to AA. They are as bad as AA in the sense that they want only one religion to be an alternative to AA - Secular Humanism.

 

They only want SECULAR programs to be promoted on this forum. Like AA, they are saying "Hey everybody, including you Christians, fall in line with OUR beliefs about the way to overcome addictions, or else." I am against AA but I am just as much against these intolerant religious bigots in our ranks. They want to get rid of AA's relgious beliefs so they can replace it with their own religious beliefs about addictions and recovery, without any competition. Why? Because they are like the "Star-bellied Sneetches". Some evolutionists did the same thing when it came to creationism. They wanted creationism out of the schools so they could teach their religion instead.

 

This is not what Orange had in mind when he started this forum. So you are right to say "The Orange Papers is not about Religion versus Secularism, but steppism being dangerous.  However, these OPF members do not want to see this. Why? Because, again, their agenda is to replace AA with their Secular Humanism religion.

 

You also asked "why shouldn't God point some people to a secular form of recovery and others to real (non-12-step) religion". But you have to understand that these members do not want God pointing anybody anywhere. They don't want God in this at all, period. That's why they don't mind [a few members] speaking out against all religious alternatives except Secular Humanism. And they view what you call "real (non-12-step) religion" as something as evil as AA, and statements from you, me, and Orange are not going to change their minds.

You are also right when you say that "we should all be exposing is the steppers cult's lies, scare-mongering, coercion and predation......not whether god exists or not......on this forum anyway". But please do realize that [one member] has been trying to prove that God does not exist long before I arrived on the OPF. I just happened to discover what he was doing and decided to address it.

But [the most vocal members] want to keep up their anti-God, anti-Christianity, secular humanistic agenda without being opposed. This agenda is just as important to them as their anti-stepper agenda. So they are not going to listen to you, me, Orange or anybody else as long as they can get away with it. That's why they are fighting so hard against me while ignoring you and Orange.

 

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXg
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36roouexomY

ALL Recovery & Treatment Programs are RELIGIOUS! (Explained)

(Watch Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous! on YouTube)

Yesterday, I posted an article on my Orange Papers (OP) Forum blog that made someone very angry. They hated this post so much that they used their internet skills to make it impossible to read the comments. If they had known how, they would have also made it impossible to read the beginning of my original post. But since they could not, I was able to have people link over to this blog. 

Realizing they might do the same thing to THIS post, I decided to place it on this blog as well as on the OPF. So if you are here, it is because this person struck again. Anyway, I'm glad you're here.

Yesterday, I promised to explain "in very plain English" why I made the statement that "all recovery and treatment programs are religious". If you have not already watched the four-minute video that I linked to yesterday, I want you to watch it BEFORE you read my explanation. 

After you have watched it, please read the rest of this post. I will make it very clear how what the speaker said relates to my statement about all treatment and recovery programs. Here is a link to this video titled: 

"Is Secular Humanism a religion or just a worldview?"  

Now that you have watched the video, let me explain what the speaker said and how it relates to my statement that "all treatment and recovery programs are religious". Once I explain this, you will understand the main reason why some OPF members are so angry with me - angry enough (I believe) to kill me if they could find me and get away with murder. If you don't believe it just read some of the blogs and comments that have been posted the last few weeks.

 

I'm going to explain my statement by quoting the speaker and commenting on what he said. He starts out by asking whether or not "[Bible-thinking] Christians should look at issues as falling into one of two categories, the "secular" or the "sacred" (the religious). The answer was NO. 

Then he went on tho say that (according to the Bible) there is no difference between "secular" and the "sacred", or let's just say the "non-religious" and the "religious". Then he plainly states that...  

"All issues are religious issues. All issues are spiritual issues."  

Now please hear me out before you shout "That's crazy!" Why? Because what he said makes perfectly good sense if you really stop and give this some thought.

The Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines religion as "a set of beliefs" and other dictionaries also define it this way. And since everybody has a set of beliefs, everybody has a religion, whether they admit it or not.

"Beliefs" are defined as "opinions and thoughts upon which people base their actions." In other words, we choose to do what we do because of the set of beliefs we have - because of our religion.  

So what does this have to do with treatment and recovery programs? Well, the speaker on the video very clearly points out that "in all cases, a teacher will maintain a perspective that communicates something about [certain] issues." In other words, every teacher has a religious point of view he expresses on  certain issues. The speaker goes on to name these viewpoints which includes... 

"There is absolute truth or there is not"
"Man has a free will or he does not"
"God is or God is not" 

These are only a few of the religious viewpoints that he named. But everything on his list are  things on which we all have religious viewpoints. 

The problem, when it comes to "treatment" and "recovery" programs, is that some OPF members are religious bigots. They are stubborn and intolerant in their devotion to their own opinions (their own religious viewpoints) and their prejudices. They have an unfair feeling of dislike for any evangelical or fundamentalist Christians who wants to present Christianity as a so-called treatment/recovery option on the OPF.  

They have no proof that the options they prefer are any more successful than Christianity when it comes to "treatment" and "recovery". However, because they don't like, and believe, some very fundamental Christian teachings on the subject, they are fighting against it as a solution to the problem. Although they pretend to be reasonable, when it comes to this, they are not being reasonable at all. This is why they are so angry with me for presenting what they call "[my] version" of Christianity as an alternative to AA.  

However, there are millions of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians who believe what I teach about addictions and how to overcome them. But these intolerant religious bigots want to pretend like what I'm teaching is the exact same thing that AA and other cults teach. JR Harris and a guy called Soberman, have made it one of their agendas on the OPF to convince members and visitors that this is true.  

These OPF bigots have their own religious beliefs about God and Christianity. The religion that many of them believe in is  Secular Humanism, the one that the speaker in the video was talking about. And, like he also pointed out, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Secular Humanism (the set of beliefs held by atheists) IS a religion. (Clink link above and read [Footnote 11] at the bottom of the page)

So even OPF atheists are religious. This it what those who hate me don't won't to admit and don't want others to know - that you, me, and everyone else (including them) have a religion.  

And because many of them believe so strongly in some (or all) of the views of this religion, they only want "treatment" and "recovery" options that agree with its teachings. This is why they refuse to tolerate any other religious alternatives to AA except their own, which proves they are religious bigots. 

Jim Battle

Watch The Best Proof that God Exists!

Watch Kent Hovind Seminars

I suggest to whoever is reading this that you think honestly about the evidence being presented to you, instead of listening to people who lie because they don't like the Bible. Why? Because when your body dies you are going somewhere, and you will be there forever. Jesus Christ proved that He was God and told us where we would end up if we reject what He offers (If you click the "what He offers" link you must scroll down the page a bit to read the post titled "What Does Jesus Offer?)".

Watch "Beware Of The Program!" My comic book slideshow on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaww2vh1nKw

Watch my TV program titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Is Dangerous!"

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe4f95BSP0
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwGBgUJyQs
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA2CdU1Gsg
Part 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az99S_jgcw

See this Powerful Legal & Historical Evidence that Proves Jesus Christ Is God:

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbjre68QXg
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36roouexomY